Music and Religion. What's the message?

[Clay Longwith]

Is there anyone who is REALLY into music of all kinds? Ever dig into some songs and really pull out a GREAT message? Ever had a song really move you? how? I listen to quite a bit of hip hop and I love to pull out Godly messages from even what might appear to be the worst sounding song.. ya know?
Any Thoughts on any of this? I am totally open to ANY comments, conversations, etc.
please share.

Clay

[TJ Clayton]

Clay I'm all about this discussion. Part of the reason I want to start a theology and media small group this summer. Typing on the iPhone right now so can't go into great detail but I'd definitely like to discuss this more soon.

[Clay Longwith]

ok... just hit me up whenever man.

[Cynthia]

Its funny because just the other day I was listening to Ray LaMontagne, 'Let it be me'. A song I've heard a million times or more, but at that moment it really ministered to me. So yep, I got a great message from that song. There is a song by Jem, that is so simple and profound if you can relate to it or had an experience similar. Its insane that music has been around forever and this song has just now been written. The song is called 'You will make it'. And although Paramore is a bit of a younger generation band, there lyrics are pretty profound as well, not all, but quit a few. What songs are you thinking of?

[Clay Longwith]

Hey Cynthia,
First, thank you for responding.
Secondly, to be honest with you, i didn't really have a certain song in mind when i proposed this question. But thinking about it now, one song that really makes me think about how God must feel, is Rascal Flatts " what hurts the most " ( i think that's the name? ) See i try to motivate myself sometimes by stopping and thinking, what would God think? So with that in mind i sometimes hear a song, or even a verse in a song and think, man, i wonder if that's how God feels? ya know? ( i know he knows all, ) but I wonder does he ask the questions, why do you treat me this way? why did you do what you did? ya know? Does he get frustrated and want to pick us up and shake us and say, what are you thinking?? lol.. ya know? like that song says " what hurts the most, is being so close, and having so much to say, and watching you walk away, and never knowing, what could have been, and not seeing that loving you, is what i tried to do." Your thoughts?

[Cynthia]

absolutely. I think one of the best ways that God communicates with us is through music. That's a whole Biblical discussion in itself just in reference to the angels and heaven, and Lucifer being cast into hell. I think God uses lyrics to minister to us all the time, even if its a secular musician, what better way to minister when were just driving around or getting ready in the morning, its totally unexpected and at the right moment! I know who Rascal Flatts is and have heard great things about them, but I have never in my life listened to Country music. I know I'm missing out on some good stuff I'm sure, but I've never heard the song, but I will look it up. Just the stuff you quoted was really good. Its funny to me because it seems like the stuff that gets us the most is so profound and simple,(life in general, but in reference to music) we just have to complicate things. Love comes from God, we all know that, so when there is a great "love song" that come out and everybody wants to swoon over it, I think it might be God playing a little trick on us, just waiting for us to pick up on it.

[TJ Clayton]

Well, I have many, many thoughts on this subject. I will sum them up as quickly as possible. First, I think traditionally the church has tried to avoid culture, b/c culture isn't necessarily Christ centered. But I believe its the job of the church to engage and eventually influence culture. I believe that the stuff we say 'is too vulgar' or 'not appropriate' are simply cries of lonely, broken, hurting artists. I believe every curse word, every anti-God lyric, every degrading line is an artist who has legitimately been hurt and needs a savior.

Second, on a more specific note, I've recently been listening to a lot of Kanye West's newest album. I've noticed a huge dichotomy in his songs. Most of the ones that make it on the radio are those talking about his accomplishments as one of the top rappers of our time, of the fame and money he's made. But then there are these hidden tracks that will never make the radio. Here are some lines from a freestyle on his latest album:

Do you think I sacrifice a real life
For all the fame of flashing lights?

There is no Gucci I can buy
There is no Louis Vuitton to put on
There is no YSL that they could sell
To get my heart out of this hell
And my mind out of this jail
There is no clothes that I could buy
That could turn back the time
There is no vacation spot I could fly
That could bring back a piece of real life
Real life, what does it feel like?
I ask you tonight, I ask you tonight
What does it feel like, I ask you tonight
To live a real life
I just want to be a real boy
They always say Kanye, he keeps it real boy

Those are the words of a thirsty soul.

[Jessica Kaminski]

I think music can move people in all sorts of ways. It's just another medium for God to reach us through. I actually found the latest Fray song, "You Found Me" very profound, because it's how we feel sometimes. We wonder what took him so long, but in the end he always finds us, sometimes broken on the floor. He's got a plan we just don't know about.

[TJ Clayton]

Love this song! I know of a church who is doing a series called "Found" and they are using this as their theme song. The Fray writes some awesome songs, with some deep lyrics. Maybe we can convince Ryan to do this one in church :)

[Clay Longwith]

TJ, Great example, i totally agree. A Thirsty soul.
There is this rap song called " out here grindin' " by the cat named DJ Kaled. And it features like 5 different guys on it. One is named " Plies". The first part of his verse has some questionable language in it, so i will not post that, but the last half of it says " Yeah I run with killa's homie, so what? what you want me to tell ya, I sold a little dust? send your informant, i bet he leave busted. I ain't scared to go I believe in Jesus." My question is this. How do you run with killas ( have friends that are murderers) sell dust ( sell drugs ) send your informant, i bet he leave busted ( threaten to kill an officer of the law ) and then say, i'm not scared to go, I believe in Jesus??? It just didn't make sense to me, it's like he is saying, it's ok for me to do this stuff, because I believe in Jesus? If that IS what he meant, man.. talk about a lost soul...

Toughts?

[TJ Clayton]

Clay, I'm by no means a psychologist or sociologist. So, my opinion is strictly that, my opinion. I have no scientific claims to back it up. Just experience. But my experience with African Americans (and I refer to them, b/c they make up the majority of HipHop culture) is that they are very very very spiritual people. Almost every African American I know, no matter how pious or not, has a rich spiritual heritage (mostly Christian but a large number of Muslims too). For many reasons they also tend to grow up in lower socioeconomic classes where violence is prevalent. A lot of times I think this puts them in 'survival mode' meaning they do what they have to do to put food on the table, provide for their families, maintain a certain level of livelihood. This can be both legal and illegal work. But its work out of concern for their well-being and the well-being of their family.

I believe a lot of them probably feel a big disconnect between their 'work' and their spirituality. They probably believe that the two are totally separate. This isn't unlike their Caucasian counterparts (us) who may work for a large corporation that, while not employing 'killas' or 'sellin dust', cheat's people out of their retirement funds or supports child labor in third world countries.

Again, I'm no expert on the subject. Just my thoughts. If nothing else, it may cause us to stop and think about how everything else we do in life is connected to our spirituality. We may not be pushing drugs on street corners, but are lying on our taxes? Are we racist? Do we gossip? Do we play on company time? Do we lookout for the less fortunate? All things that are equally as sinful as those mentioned in your example.

Wow, that's a long response.

[Clay Longwith]

TJ,
No experts allowed here... lol. actually, i prefer to hear the thoughts of those that are not those considered " experts". ya know? It seems more real that way. I would like to do something, when you have time. or when anyone has time actually. Think of 3 songs, from any era, any genre, that truly "moved you". Be honest. It does not have to be for a spiritual reason or anything related to it. Just name 3 songs over the course of your life that has "moved you" or inspired you, or spoke to you, or whatever. Think hard. Name them on here, and if anyone names one that you have not heard, go check it out and see what you think.

So let's list them and discuss? what'cha think?

Talk to ya soon.

CLay

[TJ Clayton]

I like the idea. Lets do it. I've already thought of one Johnny Cash song just sitting here. I'll think of the other two and let you guys know.